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I have been a career agent for 19 months. I made Toppers, and almost made Championship through the blue vase/crystal blue vase program. I have about 400 policies...and I am broke. I go deeper into debt every month. My subsidy will be gone in 5 months...and I am sweating it.

My renewals will not make up the difference in lost subsidy for a number of reasons- the main one being we are getting KILLED on renewals. My home policies are going up an average of 40%. So instead of getting renewals I am getting cancellations.

I would slightly disagree with some of the things I read on this site, but the majority are more true than I could have imagined a year ago. I am barely eeking by month to month and relying heavily on subsidy to pay my bills.

I actually like how Farmers claims has dealt with my clients and my DM and DMM have been very supportive- although the recruiting pie in the sky outlook is jacked up, and even my DMM acknowledged as much.

I would highly suggest anyone thinking about joining farmers to have a large bankroll or get a nice line of credit. If you make it to year 5 at least you can cash out your contract value. Unfortunately the majority will never make it past year 3, let alone year 5.

I have been interviewing with a number of companies over the last few weeks and am considering my options. I would love to hear from someone who has left the career program, or left right after the career program ended. The main thing I am weighing is to leave now or wait till I hit the 2 yr mark (when i assume the contract value slightly goes up).

Are there any subsidy ramifications in leaving during the career program vs after the career program is over? So, if I cant afford to stay as an agent, and I cant afford to leave, what do I do?

Moderator:

You are in the same boat many of us were. Blue Vase, Championship, Toppers, Top Sales in the District for several months, et al. Unfortunately, the program is designed for this very thing to happen. I'm not sure of which parts of this site you found disagreement with but take a step back and look at the big picture...

You made all the top awards, an average of 21 policies a month retained over your lifespan as an agent, yet you still are not getting paid enough to keep your office afloat with staff costs, lease and utilities. Let alone pay your own personal bills so that you can live. The renewals were what was dangled in front of you like a carrot this whole time, you were told: "Just wait till your renewals kick in, it will be easy sailing!" Those of us that have been there know this is a flat out lie.

Of the products that you have available, you could get really good at selling a group of them and possibly even do well at it, however, by requirement you must still sell a minimum number of the other product groups else lose your Farmers Agent Contract. Is it possible to sell P&C, Life Insurance and Financial Products and hit all the numbers at the same time?

Yes, but not by yourself. You basically need to have at least 2 Producer Agents and 2 Office Staff (CSR and Marketing/Receptionist) to even have a fighting chance.

With 400 policies in force (PIF) you make an average of what, $1500-2000 a month for new business and $3000 a month for renewal business? Lets break that down another step:

Producer Agents - arent going to stay long if you dont give them a commission cut. Even then, how much are they making? In this example if you give them a 25% cut of what they wrote, that would be about $300/month each? So $800 a month total pay, thats $200 a week? They wont be staying long at that rate unless you lie to them like you've been lied to all the long. Even subtract out one Producer Agent and have just one, does your income still go positive? In any case, you cannot afford a Producer Agent, but you must have one in order to sell more Life, 401K's, IRA's and Investment Products, crippled ones at that because you only have a Series 6 and not a Series 7 License.

CSR - You gotta have a CSR to service your 200 current clients when they call in right? How could you possibly not have one and help all your clients and still try and sell 25P&C, 2 Life policies, and 2 Investment Products a month? Is it really possible to find a good CSR for $10 a month? Especially now that the price of gas is nearing $3.50 a gallon? Very difficult, but this staff person you must keep or it will be absolutely impossible to meet your numbers while keeping up with attrition of your current client base.

Contact Manager - This person can do your cold calling or initial contact of potential clients so you dont have to talk to all the people that want nothing to do with your offerings. Very good for saving time so that you can attend to the other pressing needs in the Agency.

WHATS MISSING FROM THIS PICTURE?

Lets recap here, we have Producer Agent(s), CSR, Contact Manager, Office Rent, Equipment, Utilities.. oh wait there it is! You! You're not paying yourself are you? With a Net Income of -$4060 to keep this agency afloat for Farmers Insurance, not only is there nothing left to pay yourself, but you are losing money at an alarming rate.

See you can cut out all the positions I noted on the expense sheet and maybe you have a smaller office and less expenses. If you do, you are not going to make the numbers to keep your contract and heres why:

1. The only way you have enough money to keep the agency afloat without paying considerably out of pocket, is to downsize considerably or share expenses with another agent
2. You cannot meet the sales numbers by yourself for all 3 products you must sell to keep your contract, even if you work 10 hours a day/7 days a week
3. You are always at the mercy of Farmers' Pricing model. They raise rates and you lose, theres no other way around it. Farmers-Online.com has yet to receive one posting where the rates went down in their area and their selling policies like hotcakes. Even if that did happen, what goes down, must of course come up and thats true with all insurance companies, not only Farmers.

WHAT WENT WRONG?

Well take a look at what you accomplished. Top sales numbers, met your goals, have a decent PIF for a 19 month agent. Yet you are still losing money! Let me share a little secret with you, that is the Farmers Plan. They want you and 8 of your fellow agents to fail. They want you to sink $30,000-80,000 of your own money into your agency before you wash out. They want your clients so they can redistribute them to other agents and pay 1/2 the commission. It is how the system works.

The shitty thing about the whole deal is, you cant just quit and walk away. You owe thousands of dollars in subsidy. Thats how they keep you longer, to spend more money on the system. Its the fear of owing that subsidy in one lump sum. You know what? They will demand it from you, days after your exit.

WHAT TO DO NOW?

My friend, I wouldnt be here (writing this on a web site) had I not been in your shoes before. I got screwed by the same system that is shafting you right now. I have talked to countless other agents that have been through the same deal. I've also heard from a few new or existing agents that scoff at us because we failed the program. But look at the system as a whole, 9 of 10 agents fail. Those are facts. The one that succeeds, in the end ends up with most of the policies of the other 9 that didnt make it. Farmers has basically hired themselves an Agent at a discount because they get paid 1/2 the commission and its impossible to meet the numbers to convert those policies to 3 series for the full commission. But one thing remains consistent, the 1 Agent that ends up staying is always the one that kisses the most DM ass.

If you leave now, before your 24 month mark, your DM will owe 40% of your subsidy. You will be responsible for 50% of it. If you leave after the 24 month mark, they owe nothing and they get all your clients! Should you wait till 24 months cause you're DM was the great guy that told you how well you would do? Is he making your house payments while you are getting the shaft right now and racking up personal debt to offset expenses? Nope, the truth is, he knows all about what he's doing to you and no matter how convincing your DM is otherwise, does not care about you one single bit. He only cares about how much money he makes, not how many lives he ruins to get there.

Now, shortly after you exit, you'll get a call from some jackass inside of Farmers to settle your Subsidy. Tell that person to go shove it. The best they will offer you is to pay back the full amount over the next xx months. Not a good deal. Let it go to collections because they will negotiate with you and you can settle for 40-60% of the total amount. Make sure you are truthful in how broke you are right now and cannot pay the full amount.

LIFE AFTER FARMERS, HOW TO EXIT

Get yourself a Producer Agent contract with an Independent agency, keep your office going for 2-3 more months. Every person you quote from here out, quote them with the other companies too and compare. Start selling some of those if you like because what is the consequence? You lose your contract for selling business outside Farmers. If you do it smartly, you can hide it well enough to where they cant prove it. You only need a couple months so you can get a head start. Hit it hard too, sell 50 policies or more a month. Stop selling life insurance and financial products. Plan to never sell them again. The great part is, they must give you 90 days notice or pay before completely stopping to pay you. You want the 90 days to fall before the 24 month cutoff so your DM owes his share of subsidy.

By the time the quarter ends, you're life numbers will be off track. Make up excuses and stall them. Your Farmers P&C numbers will also be off track too. In fact, convert as many of your current clients as possible to the new agency. Start saving lists of data on all your Farmers Clients for later marketing too because you will likely need to turn in your files when you leave.

Make sure that they give you 90 days of renewal pay after the termination notice has been set.

Oh your Contract Value? Its going to be a joke. Probably $4000-5000 total. Dont even consider staying 24 months to get a "higher amount" because they will still give you the same amount and say their number was right. Because there is nothing you can do about it to make them fix it and they know this.

Moderator